Talk:Karl Arnold
If my memory is in working order, never a sure bet, Arnold kept only the father ring, so it'd be eight families. It makes sense with the shock on every face when Hotch shows them to the team - Mvpl 23:50, March 25, 2010 (UTC) :In Outfoxed, Morgan actually says that Karl killed eight families, one for each ring. - Jpx400 23:33, March 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I just finished watching The Fox and it occured to me that Arnold may not have killed four unknown families. While that is certainly the implication, and makes for a powerful ending, the idea that Arnold would have targeted families from the very beginning of his killing-career as well as not having been detected is a little farfetched. It seems far more likely that at least some of the unknown rings, if not all, were beginning kills that targeted only husbands rather than whole families. The lack of tapes and other evidence indicating family names supports this (or possibly indicates he just hadn't begun taking as many souvenirs). I haven't seen Outfoxed in awhile, so I forget if it was explicitly stated he killed four other families or if that was just the assumption. If it's not explicitly stated in that episode or other materials, would it be better for us to allow for ambiguity? Jackal Killer 02:44, May 6, 2010 (UTC) ::IMO it's really evident that 8 wedding rings, 1 ring for each family. The scene where Gideon drops the box of rings on the table was meant to imply that by all means, no doubt. Rock8591 (talk) 05:01, February 6, 2015 (UTC) :::Just like Jackal Killer said, it may make for a powerful ending, but the fact that Karl killed entire families all the way during his murder campaign sounds a bit unrealistic. Outfoxed clearly stated that serial family annihilators start with lone victims first. UnSub-Zero (talk) 05:54, February 6, 2015 (UTC) :::Except the rings were specifically wedding rings belonging to a husband, i.e. not simply a man having a ring on his hand, not tribal rings, not ethnic jewelry/art. Unless Karl specifically bought some extra rings and placed them into a box for the BAU to find, to make them think the bodycount is much higher. Which itself is an extremely farfetched storyline that is not implied by anything. You can clearly see the disgust on Hotch and Gideon's face when they empty the box with the 8 rings. The background music is very calm, majestic, yet spooky. The scene coupled with the music clearly shows how evil Karl Arnold really was. The team realizes they have a serial (not spree) killer on their hands. Rock8591 (talk) 06:49, February 6, 2015 (UTC) ::: I think he does mention the four families in Outfoxed. I'd have to watch it again to see if he actually killed the whole family, though. - Criminal Protagonist Since Karl assisted the BAU in catching Miranda Jakar, could he be considered a criminal protagonist for that one episode? What does everyone think? - I was gonna suggest categorizing him as that too, but never got around to it. -- Lord Crayak 10:19, September 20, 2010 (UTC) Let's see what the others think. All two of them :) BTW, no plans on joining the Facebook group? Mvpl and Jpx400 are there. - I don't actually have accounts Facebook, Twitter, etc... I know, I'm pretty behind. -- Lord Crayak 21:19, September 20, 2010 (UTC) Facebook is overrated. I usually just end up getting in political/religious arguments that get me deleted or make me delete other people. Apparently my opinions regarding illegal aliens and Muslims are not appreciated by the general public :) - :For me, go ahead, it's good thinking. :And Lord Crayak, debating with Sec is a fun, even interesting, exercise... and he knows that usually I'm not in agreement with him in those matters, so give it a try ;) :Hey now, let's not poke the bear. - Karl Arnold: character change? One thing that bothered me about the use of Karl Arnold for the Outfoxed episode: it seemed they took massive liberties with his character profile between the two episodes. He seemed deluded, broken, and desperate in the first episode, killing other families over and over in a strange and horrific attempt to make sense of or justify the breaking apart of his own family. That way he could avoid admitting to himself it was his own rage and control issues that had destroyed his family. In the second he was cold, totally in control, and delighting in people's misery, which seemed completely different from our first image of him. They made him more of a sexual predator in the second one, and while he definitely horrific and creeptastic to start with, it just didn't seem that being a sexual predator was part of the original character arc in the first episode with him. Of course, this is just my opinion. The acting was superb in both cases, and taken as two separate characters, I have no problem with the characterization. It just seemed to me that both paradigms don't "jive" together. They needed to "pick one" and go with it all the way. 05:49, October 23, 2011 (UTC) Kill count? (Very new to this editor, please accept my apologies on formatting if I did this incorrectly...) Karl Arnold had 8 wedding rings collected, 8 families killed. Each family had AT LEAST 1 kid. Miller and Crawford families had 2 each. Would that not make his total kill count 6*3 + 2*4 = 26+? Not "8+" that is shown in his wiki? Even if all 6 of the previous families had no kids...that still makes it 6*2 + 2*4 = 20+, not 8+. I think an edit is in order to reflect a more accurate figure. I think the '8' figure has shown itself to be clearly debunked. 8 families, not 8 individuals, unless all 8 families had no wife and kids, which we know it's not possible. Rock8591 (talk) 04:58, February 6, 2015 (UTC) :We cannot rely on pure guesswork to guess a body count. UnSub-Zero (talk) 05:54, February 6, 2015 (UTC) :LOL "pure guesswork." As Wikipedia culture would imply, I try to show good faith until I start talking with the blatantly foolish people. It's pure and simple math, 1st grade level. Crawford and Miller family both combined 8 people killed. 6 rings before that would make it a MINIMUM of 12 people killed (assuming no children in any of the previous 6 families, which we already know is not true given the background info on this unsub). Where did Karl get the 6 rings - bought em from Walmart? That would make it a BARE MINIMUM of 20 people killed. The '8' figure has much LESS basis than the 20 figure. Rock8591 (talk) 06:33, February 6, 2015 (UTC) Prolific serial killer? If he killed eight families, he sure has a body count over 20. Also, the cooling-off period is noticable. :The only numbers we know of are the two families featured in The Fox. No one even knows if the first three victims were men or families. We can't be sure of that. UnSub-Zero (talk) 20:11, May 23, 2015 (UTC) :The 2 families would add up to 8 killed total. The 6 additional rings (of the 8 rings) would have to account for a MINIMUM of 6 victims. 06:43, May 27, 2015 (UTC) ::Which, of course, was realized already and added. But do keep in mind that the number of victims outside of the two families killed in "The Fox" was made pretty vague, especially after the BAU said in "Outfoxed" that serial family annihilators start with lone victims before moving on to entire families. UnSub-Zero (talk) 06:48, May 27, 2015 (UTC)